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premierscfc
Posted 16/7/2008 08:13 (#29828 - in reply to #29827)
Subject: RE: Grace Dent





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bradley27 - 16/7/2008 00:51
premierscfc - 15/7/2008 16:46 I think her blog is pretty accurate.  She says there is no future in Beccy/Luke, she slates Dale, takes the mickey out of Lisa, likes Rex and detests Mikey.  That seems to be pretty much how I see things as well.
its not who or what she supports, its how its written

If she had signed up on DS and posted word for word the same article there would not be any criticism. It does seem to be only one forums members that has a problem with Grace Dent this series.

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bradley27
Posted 16/7/2008 14:36 (#29837 - in reply to #29828)
Subject: RE: Grace Dent


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premierscfc - 16/7/2008 08:13

bradley27 - 16/7/2008 00:51
premierscfc - 15/7/2008 16:46 I think her blog is pretty accurate.  She says there is no future in Beccy/Luke, she slates Dale, takes the mickey out of Lisa, likes Rex and detests Mikey.  That seems to be pretty much how I see things as well.
its not who or what she supports, its how its written

If she had signed up on DS and posted word for word the same article there would not be any criticism. It does seem to be only one forums members that has a problem with Grace Dent this series.



I disagree. I would have been most dissappointed in what she had written. Although I wouldnt know why, unlike with her writing for BB we know the reason why
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Julian
Posted 16/7/2008 15:31 (#29841 - in reply to #29826)
Subject: Re: Grace Dent


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bradley27 - 16/7/2008 00:50

Its not the opinions that are the main problem, there is a completely different style and there is no way she would have written like that in previous years. She would not have defended Alex when she did and this week it was quite ridiculous the way she followed the script about Luke and Bex, even though their behaviour has been terrible.


I don't understand where she's following the script about Bex and Luke when, as I pointed out, her opinion doesn't coincide with either of the opinions expressed by presenters of the show? It's your opinion that this behaviour was terrible and, therefore, it is your opinion that is the basis for your objection to her coverage of that behaviour. As far as I can see, her only problem is that she doesn't agree with your opinion!

All the presenters seem to have different views and, apart from a lack of coverage on some of my favourites sometimes, the highlight shows and Diary Room Uncut seem to be bias-free as well. If there's a party line on anything, I really can't tell what it is!

As for style, if she wants to adopt a different style for a different platform then that's up to her - I don't have a problem with the concept. However I don't see any evidence of a different style or any reason why C4 would benefit by requiring it. It's pretty obvious that they wouldn't want her to slag off the program itself but that wouldn't restrict her to any particular opinion about the housemates and, as far as I'm concerned, there is nothing to criticize with respect to the program anyway.

As far as I'm concerned it's one of the best BB's yet. I love the design of the house, I love the tasks, I love the way they've gone back to basics with standard nominations every week and no format-changing twists. I love that the housemates don't get to hear the crowds reaction on eviction night, I love the mix of housemates and the lack of dedicated psychology programs unfairly prejudicing viewers. I love the token idea so that they can motivate housemates for the mini-tasks. I think the jail is a brilliant and effective punishment and the house divide and head-of-house idea are working well.

Right now the production is firing on all cylinders and I see no reason why Grace would need to criticize any part of it.

Regards

Julian
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bradley27
Posted 16/7/2008 17:20 (#29842 - in reply to #29841)
Subject: Re: Grace Dent


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Julian - 16/7/2008 15:31

bradley27 - 16/7/2008 00:50

Its not the opinions that are the main problem, there is a completely different style and there is no way she would have written like that in previous years. She would not have defended Alex when she did and this week it was quite ridiculous the way she followed the script about Luke and Bex, even though their behaviour has been terrible.


I don't understand where she's following the script about Bex and Luke when, as I pointed out, her opinion doesn't coincide with either of the opinions expressed by presenters of the show? It's your opinion that this behaviour was terrible and, therefore, it is your opinion that is the basis for your objection to her coverage of that behaviour. As far as I can see, her only problem is that she doesn't agree with your opinion!

All the presenters seem to have different views and, apart from a lack of coverage on some of my favourites sometimes, the highlight shows and Diary Room Uncut seem to be bias-free as well. If there's a party line on anything, I really can't tell what it is!

As for style, if she wants to adopt a different style for a different platform then that's up to her - I don't have a problem with the concept. However I don't see any evidence of a different style or any reason why C4 would benefit by requiring it. It's pretty obvious that they wouldn't want her to slag off the program itself but that wouldn't restrict her to any particular opinion about the housemates and, as far as I'm concerned, there is nothing to criticize with respect to the program anyway.

As far as I'm concerned it's one of the best BB's yet. I love the design of the house, I love the tasks, I love the way they've gone back to basics with standard nominations every week and no format-changing twists. I love that the housemates don't get to hear the crowds reaction on eviction night, I love the mix of housemates and the lack of dedicated psychology programs unfairly prejudicing viewers. I love the token idea so that they can motivate housemates for the mini-tasks. I think the jail is a brilliant and effective punishment and the house divide and head-of-house idea are working well.

Right now the production is firing on all cylinders and I see no reason why Grace would need to criticize any part of it.

Regards

Julian


Again it has nothing about her opinion, its the way its presented. Besides her opinion about Bex and luke is the same as Davina, its just she has extended it to say it wont last. Its nothing to do with her opinions anyway, its the way its writing and the things she doesnt write. If you cant see you cant see it, but believe me this is nothing to do with her not expressing my views.
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Julian
Posted 16/7/2008 17:49 (#29843 - in reply to #29842)
Subject: Re: Grace Dent


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bradley27 - 16/7/2008 17:20
Again it has nothing about her opinion, its the way its presented. Besides her opinion about Bex and luke is the same as Davina, its just she has extended it to say it wont last. Its nothing to do with her opinions anyway, its the way its writing and the things she doesnt write. If you cant see you cant see it, but believe me this is nothing to do with her not expressing my views.


Well, I really don't see it. I still enjoy her blogs immensely and have no problems with them at all.

In terms of what she says I can't see why you would object to it if you agreed with it. I still don't see how you can take a neutral highlight show, a romance-prone Davina (as per usual) and a cynical George and Zezi and deduce some kind of party-line or script from the presentation of differing opinions. Or is Davina's opinion the only one that counts?

In terms of style, I think, perhaps, you are used to her criticizing the show and the fact that she's not doing so is seen as a deviation in style. However, as far as I'm concerned, there's no cause to criticize the show this year so I don't think her blog would have been any different if she were working for C4 or not.

Regards

Julian

Edited by Julian 16/7/2008 18:00
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bradley27
Posted 16/7/2008 18:02 (#29844 - in reply to #29843)
Subject: Re: Grace Dent


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Julian - 16/7/2008 17:49

bradley27 - 16/7/2008 17:20
Again it has nothing about her opinion, its the way its presented. Besides her opinion about Bex and luke is the same as Davina, its just she has extended it to say it wont last. Its nothing to do with her opinions anyway, its the way its writing and the things she doesnt write. If you cant see you cant see it, but believe me this is nothing to do with her not expressing my views.


Well, I really don't see it. I still enjoy her blogs immensely and have no problems with them at all.

In terms of what she says I can't see why you would object to it if you agreed with it. I still don't see how you can take a neutral highlight show, a romance-prone Davina (as per usual) and a cynical George and Zezi and deduce some kind of party-line or script from the presentation of differing opinions. Or is Davina's opinion the only one that counts?

In terms of style, I think, perhaps, you are used to her criticizing the show and the fact that she's not doing so is seen as a deviation in style. However, as far as I'm concerned, there's no cause to criticize the show this year so I don't think her blog would have been any different if she were working for C4 or not.

Regards

Julian


I guess we just arent going to agree. We are just going to have to accept we have different opinions on this, and that I'm right and you arent.
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boldjohn
Posted 16/7/2008 21:38 (#29849 - in reply to #29844)
Subject: Re: Grace Dent


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bradley27 - 16/7/2008 18:02

Julian - 16/7/2008 17:49

bradley27 - 16/7/2008 17:20
Again it has nothing about her opinion, its the way its presented. Besides her opinion about Bex and luke is the same as Davina, its just she has extended it to say it wont last. Its nothing to do with her opinions anyway, its the way its writing and the things she doesnt write. If you cant see you cant see it, but believe me this is nothing to do with her not expressing my views.


Well, I really don't see it. I still enjoy her blogs immensely and have no problems with them at all.

In terms of what she says I can't see why you would object to it if you agreed with it. I still don't see how you can take a neutral highlight show, a romance-prone Davina (as per usual) and a cynical George and Zezi and deduce some kind of party-line or script from the presentation of differing opinions. Or is Davina's opinion the only one that counts?

In terms of style, I think, perhaps, you are used to her criticizing the show and the fact that she's not doing so is seen as a deviation in style. However, as far as I'm concerned, there's no cause to criticize the show this year so I don't think her blog would have been any different if she were working for C4 or not.

Regards

Julian


I guess we just arent going to agree. We are just going to have to accept we have different opinions on this, and that I'm right and you arent.


For me, Grace Dent's writing could be improved by more references to Aisleyne. She may be a great writer, but I really only liked her because she saw Big Brother from my perspective.
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Julian
Posted 16/7/2008 23:18 (#29852 - in reply to #29844)
Subject: Re: Grace Dent


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bradley27 - 16/7/2008 18:02
I guess we just arent going to agree. We are just going to have to accept we have different opinions on this, and that I'm right and you arent.


Ok, if you insist, I'll accept that I'm right and you aren't
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bradley27
Posted 17/7/2008 13:52 (#29858 - in reply to #29852)
Subject: Re: Grace Dent


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Julian - 16/7/2008 23:18

bradley27 - 16/7/2008 18:02
I guess we just arent going to agree. We are just going to have to accept we have different opinions on this, and that I'm right and you arent.


Ok, if you insist, I'll accept that I'm right and you aren't


you see you cant even read properly
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ofni
Posted 17/7/2008 14:18 (#29860 - in reply to #29858)
Subject: Re: Grace Dent




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Hey, guys, somebody seems to have put a "dent" in your relationship.

Sounds like a job for Mario the Facilitator....

FWIW I'm not buying into the sell-out theory either. I'm seeing pretty much the usual Grace Dent scalpel at work.

You could similarly argue that because Aisleyne's blogs are based mainly on her viewing the Highlights show, they will tend to reflect the Endemol priorities and "storylines" somewhat. It still doesn't invalidate her opinions and preferences, or detract from their appeal and entertainment value, whether you agree with her or not.
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bradley27
Posted 22/7/2008 23:36 (#29904 - in reply to #17089)
Subject: Re: Grace Dent


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If you go and read this week's Grace Dent, I am happy to inform you is Grace back at what she does best. I dont agree with everything she says but thats the old Grace. Read that then read what she has written so far this series and the difference is clear. Lets hope its not a one off
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premierscfc
Posted 22/7/2008 23:40 (#29905 - in reply to #29904)
Subject: Re: Grace Dent





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bradley27 - 22/7/2008 23:36 If you go and read this week's Grace Dent, I am happy to inform you is Grace back at what she does best. I dont agree with everything she says but thats the old Grace. Read that then read what she has written so far this series and the difference is clear. Lets hope its not a one off

So she has not sold out then.  

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ofni
Posted 22/7/2008 23:54 (#29906 - in reply to #29905)
Subject: Re: Grace Dent




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premierscfc - 22/7/2008 23:40

bradley27 - 22/7/2008 23:36 If you go and read this week's Grace Dent, I am happy to inform you is Grace back at what she does best. I dont agree with everything she says but thats the old Grace. Read that then read what she has written so far this series and the difference is clear. Lets hope its not a one off

So she has not sold out then.  



Unless of course she has been briefed by the Endomoluminati to signal the mid-series sea-change whereby Luke-the-Gob meets his nemesis, Rex finds his inner Ghandhi and St Rachel's "journey" moves out of edited HL purdah to assume centre stage!
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Julian
Posted 23/7/2008 00:37 (#29907 - in reply to #29904)
Subject: Re: Grace Dent


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bradley27 - 22/7/2008 23:36

If you go and read this week's Grace Dent, I am happy to inform you is Grace back at what she does best. I dont agree with everything she says but thats the old Grace. Read that then read what she has written so far this series and the difference is clear. Lets hope its not a one off


She does seem to have gotten a bit more acerbic. Possibly she read the recent opinions by Karen Krizanovich which were certainly not pulling any punches

http://www.channel4.com/bigbrother/news/newsstory.jsp?id=9083&posit...

I love that someone else has finally seen the merits of Rachel now

Regards

Julian
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bradley27
Posted 23/7/2008 01:01 (#29908 - in reply to #29905)
Subject: Re: Grace Dent


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premierscfc - 22/7/2008 23:40

bradley27 - 22/7/2008 23:36 If you go and read this week's Grace Dent, I am happy to inform you is Grace back at what she does best. I dont agree with everything she says but thats the old Grace. Read that then read what she has written so far this series and the difference is clear. Lets hope its not a one off

So she has not sold out then.  



Well there is a complete difference this week. Makes you wonder why it wasnt the case before as she was certainly towing that line. Who knows maybe they gave her a free rein this week, before going back. However you cant write objectively about the company that pays your wages. It is a conflict of interest

Honestly cant you see the difference between this weeks and previous weeks

Edited by bradley27 23/7/2008 01:08
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premierscfc
Posted 23/7/2008 10:14 (#29911 - in reply to #29908)
Subject: Re: Grace Dent





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bradley27 - 23/7/2008 01:01
premierscfc - 22/7/2008 23:40

bradley27 - 22/7/2008 23:36 If you go and read this week's Grace Dent, I am happy to inform you is Grace back at what she does best. I dont agree with everything she says but thats the old Grace. Read that then read what she has written so far this series and the difference is clear. Lets hope its not a one off

So she has not sold out then.

Well there is a complete difference this week. Makes you wonder why it wasnt the case before as she was certainly towing that line. Who knows maybe they gave her a free rein this week, before going back. However you cant write objectively about the company that pays your wages. It is a conflict of interest Honestly cant you see the difference between this weeks and previous weeks

 

I can see a difference.  This weeks is better.  I don't see any more than that.  If she had sold out then this blog must have been her resignation and there would be no more.  She backs Rachel and paints Luke as the bad guy and that is not "Company policy".  You can't have it both ways and say she has sold out when she writes something you don't agree with and then say she has not when she writes something you agree with.

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Julian
Posted 23/7/2008 14:11 (#29916 - in reply to #29908)
Subject: Re: Grace Dent


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bradley27 - 23/7/2008 01:01
Well there is a complete difference this week. Makes you wonder why it wasnt the case before as she was certainly towing that line. Who knows maybe they gave her a free rein this week, before going back. However you cant write objectively about the company that pays your wages. It is a conflict of interest


The point is, her brief isn't to write about the company it's to write about the housemates. You could say that when she writes for the Guardian she's selling out because she's not allowed to say bad things about the Guardian but saying bad things about the Guardian isn't relevant to the articles she's been asked to write for them and, in this case, saying bad things about the BB production team isn't relevant to what she's been asked to write about for BB.

I don't believe she's been told to have any particular opinion about the housemates. There are currently nine different sections of opinion on the website with at least six regular contributors giving six different opinions every week along with numerous guest opinions (including Aisleyne's). It beggars belief that the producers are telling each one of them exactly what to write and it's even less likely that they would let everyone else have their own opinion except Grace! Apart from anything else I really don't see what they have to gain…

Regards

Julian
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bradley27
Posted 23/7/2008 16:48 (#29917 - in reply to #29911)
Subject: Re: Grace Dent


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premierscfc - 23/7/2008 10:14

bradley27 - 23/7/2008 01:01
premierscfc - 22/7/2008 23:40

bradley27 - 22/7/2008 23:36 If you go and read this week's Grace Dent, I am happy to inform you is Grace back at what she does best. I dont agree with everything she says but thats the old Grace. Read that then read what she has written so far this series and the difference is clear. Lets hope its not a one off

So she has not sold out then.

Well there is a complete difference this week. Makes you wonder why it wasnt the case before as she was certainly towing that line. Who knows maybe they gave her a free rein this week, before going back. However you cant write objectively about the company that pays your wages. It is a conflict of interest Honestly cant you see the difference between this weeks and previous weeks

 

I can see a difference.  This weeks is better.  I don't see any more than that.  If she had sold out then this blog must have been her resignation and there would be no more.  She backs Rachel and paints Luke as the bad guy and that is not "Company policy".  You can't have it both ways and say she has sold out when she writes something you don't agree with and then say she has not when she writes something you agree with.



yes I can because I dont agree with everything she said this week. Its all down to how it has been written and what has been focussed on. This week she seems to have been given a free rein. Lets hope it continues. However you cant be totally objective when you write about the people who employ you. Its a conflict of interests.
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bradley27
Posted 23/7/2008 16:49 (#29918 - in reply to #29916)
Subject: Re: Grace Dent


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Julian - 23/7/2008 14:11

bradley27 - 23/7/2008 01:01
Well there is a complete difference this week. Makes you wonder why it wasnt the case before as she was certainly towing that line. Who knows maybe they gave her a free rein this week, before going back. However you cant write objectively about the company that pays your wages. It is a conflict of interest


The point is, her brief isn't to write about the company it's to write about the housemates. You could say that when she writes for the Guardian she's selling out because she's not allowed to say bad things about the Guardian but saying bad things about the Guardian isn't relevant to the articles she's been asked to write for them and, in this case, saying bad things about the BB production team isn't relevant to what she's been asked to write about for BB.

I don't believe she's been told to have any particular opinion about the housemates. There are currently nine different sections of opinion on the website with at least six regular contributors giving six different opinions every week along with numerous guest opinions (including Aisleyne's). It beggars belief that the producers are telling each one of them exactly what to write and it's even less likely that they would let everyone else have their own opinion except Grace! Apart from anything else I really don't see what they have to gain…

Regards

Julian


simple. You cant be objective if you are paid by the company that you are writing about. She often criticised Endemol in the past, she cant now
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premierscfc
Posted 23/7/2008 17:16 (#29919 - in reply to #17089)
Subject: RE: Grace Dent





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How can she have had free rein if she has sold out and has to write what she is told?  You are confusing me now.
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boldjohn
Posted 23/7/2008 17:43 (#29920 - in reply to #29919)
Subject: RE: Grace Dent


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I can't judge how objective Grace Dent is as I'm not watching BB9. I was very surprised to hear that she was writing for the Channel 4 website. I suppose it was a good move on their part to have a critic of the show (particularly during BB7) on their side.
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Julian
Posted 23/7/2008 23:56 (#29926 - in reply to #29918)
Subject: Re: Grace Dent


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bradley27 - 23/7/2008 16:49
simple. You cant be objective if you are paid by the company that you are writing about. She often criticised Endemol in the past, she cant now


But she's not writing about the company! You say that this week's write up demonstrates that she's been given a free reign and yet she hasn't written any criticism of Endemol at all.

I totally accept that she would be constrained when it comes to criticizing Endemol but I have no great desire to hear her criticize Endemol. I never did. Besides, this year I doubt that she'd have anything to complain about anyway.

Her brief is to write about the housemates and I believe she can be as objective as she likes when it comes to her opinions about the housemates because Channel 4 doesn't have any vested interest in any particular viewpoint. Which I think should be clearly demonstrated by all the other myriad opinions that they are hosting on the same website as Grace.

Regards

Julian
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bradley27
Posted 24/7/2008 01:39 (#29930 - in reply to #29919)
Subject: RE: Grace Dent


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premierscfc - 23/7/2008 17:16

How can she have had free rein if she has sold out and has to write what she is told?  You are confusing me now.


I know its not hard to though
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bradley27
Posted 29/7/2008 22:02 (#30033 - in reply to #17089)
Subject: Re: Grace Dent


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Interestingly her weekly blog isnt up yet. Normally its up by Tuesday evening. Has she resigned or is she trying to get "Endemol are a disgrace" blog through?
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